How to Set Up an Author Podcast Tour with Alex Sanfilippo

Alex Sanfilippo is the host of the top-rated podcast Podcasting Made Simple, the founder of PodPros.com, a software company focused specifically on the podcasting industry and the co-creator of PodMatch, a service that matches podcast guests and hosts together for interviews. That's not all! He also co-founded PodcastSOP, a project management tool that helps podcasters keep up with their episode releases.

You get it: the guy is POD OBSESSED.

So who better to come on the show to talk about how authors can book podcast tours? Everything he shared was fascinating but what I found especially fascinating is what he had to say about why authors should pass on opportunities to go on certain shows and why appearing on smaller podcasts can be way more beneficial than going on the big ones.

Good one! Don't miss it!

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TRANSCRIPT:

Anna David: Thank you so much for being here, Alex.

Alex: Anna, it's such an honor to be here. I'm really excited about what we're going to be able to do to add value today. So thank you so much for having me.

Anna David: Well, so I think we should just get right into it. I would call you a podcast obsessed man. Am I correct? 

Alex: I've never been called that before. But yes, that's strangely accurate.

Anna David: So we'll talk about the services you offer. But first, let's just get right into it. If somebody who's listening is in the process of writing a book thinking about writing a book, maybe has written the book, wants to do an author tour, what are the steps? They know, I always say a podcast is the very best way to promote your book. Better than mainstream TV. Better than the today's show. So how should they start going about that?

Alex: Yeah, I'm first of all glad that you said it's kind of like the best method out of the bunch. And there's a couple reasons for that, especially with your audience being really busy, successful entrepreneurs, trying to get a physical book tour going, like going like town to town, if people even do that. Right or like, even something local. That's going to be a lot more work than saying, “Hey, I'm going to block out an hour of my time to jump on a podcast today.” Right? Like not even leaving the office and not even leaving the desk, it's just a much easier way to get the same message out, which I really personally love. I mean, I work from home office, I think it's just a great thing as a busy entrepreneur myself. But anyway, yeah, I believe that this is a really powerful method. And I think the best way to get started, is to really figure out the approach that you want to take. So a lot of us being entrepreneurs, we are multifaceted, from the sense of, yes, we have the book or the idea for the book, right. But we've also got the business and we've got the hobby, and the we've got the side hustle on the side hustle, right? Like we've got all these things, the first thing you want to do is really narrow down what you are going to share specifically. And I always say, it can change, but it needs to be one thing at any given time. So if you say today, it's the book, then only talk about the book. And what I mean, if someone asks you a question about your personal life, you're like, I don't really want to talk about let's talk about the book. What I mean is, if you're like an amateur surfer, on the side of now, a busy entrepreneur who's published a book, don't jump on surfing podcast right now. Say no to those for now. And for now stay focused on the tour that you're on, just like you would with a physical tour. You wouldn't take all these detours on it, right? You're going to stay focused on the main thing. So I think number one, is really figure out what you are going to be doing what you're going to be talking about, get that really laser focus with yourself. Because once you have that foundation, you're able to look at the industry and decide what you want to do moving forward.

Anna David: So the author can look at their book and go, Okay, I mean, this has a specific slant. So let's say it's an entrepreneur who has written a book on how to build a business, what should that entrepreneurs first step be to get that tour going?

Alex: Commit to themselves that they're only going to talk about their book and starting a business, right? So again, we get all that out there. The next thing would be to identify how many shows they want to get on. Because I'll tell you this, shows that would be a good fit for a topic like that, there are going to be 10s of 1000s of them out there. And podcasting is the abundance area, like that whole industry is just full of abundance. So there is a lot of opportunity. But if you just say “I'm going to go on all of them” might not be a good idea. What you really want to do is say okay, I would like to get on, let's say 52 this year. I'm going to do one a week, for an entire year, which is a very ambitious goal, I'd say. But let's just imagine that's what you have committed to. The next thing you want to do is really identify the just specific avatar or reader of your book, the person that you can most speak to with your content. So again, that's a fictitious character. I have one for my podcast, his name is Adam. Adam is not real, but I can tell you anything you want to know about Adam, his age, his relationships, how often he works out, like where he works, like all those things are little details I have. And I think that once you've said, “okay, I'm going to get on this many shows, and I'm only going to be talking to this avatar.” Now you can look at the 10,000 shows that are in that category, that might be a pretty good fit, and identify the ones that would be the absolute best fit for you at that point. Or if they're coming to you, you can clearly just start funneling them saying okay, this one's a no, this one's a yes, you can start having that opportunity to do that sort of thing.

Anna David: Okay, two things. I personally have always had struggled with this avatar and I always tell my clients is picture one person. My most recent book, I pictured literally, this is kind of a great story, a couple that I knew super cool. They talked to me about hiring my company. I wrote this book and thought of them. Would they like this? Would they be offended by this? And they never hired me. But lots and lots of people like them did. Years pass. I see them I love them so much. I was like, oh my god, this is so hilarious. I wrote this book thinking of you guys. Guess what, then they hired me. So it takes immediately. But I didn't care that they hadn't hired me because having them as an avatar got me really clear, when it comes to podcasts even say what we're doing right now to get really meta. I can't picture one person. I know my listeners, you know, Christine, if you're listening, I think of Christina and Ashley a lot, because they are literally, they are so enthusiastic about this show and comments and all the things. But there's guys who listen, there are people clearly who are not Christine and Ashley, how do I handle that?

Alex: That's such a good question. And I think it's a really important point, like getting to the point where you know, your listener is a great thing. When you're the host, you can do that when you're the guest, you're not really sure. You’re not like, hi, Mom, I bet you're going to listen to this, right? Like, you're the host, when you start knowing your audience. That is a very clear as someone who's being a guest, that is a clear example of what a healthy podcast looks like. When you actually can call people out that you know, are going to listen, that is, in my mind, the best place a podcast can be. And I think a lot of people just skip that. And they always just had the fictitious avatar. Now I want to make it really clear that is the foundation. So if you're not sure who's listening, have that. If you’re going to be a guest and you don't know everything about the show. Even though I've listened to your podcast, I don't know who's listening. Like I couldn't tell you that, you say Christina and Ashley, I think right? If I knew who they were, that would be very weird, right? If I did that much research to discover, hey, I saw two really engaged people. That would be like borderline stalker level. Yeah. So again, as the guest, I'm just going to create an avatar and I'm going to look for shows like yours that reference specific listeners. Because that means that you've built a tribe, you build a community, that means they're going to be really engaged. And because they trust you so much, I've kind of already developed a little bit that know like, and trust with them as well, because you invited me to the platform. So again, as the as the guest, you have to just do your best to say, “okay, it's just a line with who I think I really can speak to.” And if you've decided you have a real person in mind saying, okay, like me, I think have a couple friends in my life. I think of my buddy Jared. Would he get something from us? Because we're really well aligned. And he's always interested in similar things. Would he like this podcast? You can make it real if you want to do something like that. And I think that that's equally as healthy in my mind.

Anna David: So you mentioned passing on podcasts that aren't aligned? Is that really a good idea? If you're brand new to podcasting, shouldn't you say yes to everything?

Alex: So this is like a controversial opinion here. But I still say no, I know a lot of people who say yes, just get on them, get the reps in and stuff like that. For me, there's just so many podcasts, I want to be on ones that I really, truly believe I can add value. Even if I get nothing out of it. I want to know that I can show up and I'm talking about my proper craft, the thing that I want to talk about right now and showing up to do the best I possibly can. I've been invited on some, for lack of better term, some strange podcasts. When I say strange to me, they're strange, because I'm like, I don't, I don't even know that topic, like doesn't make sense to me. I've been, I got invited to one that was actually strictly higher education and college professors listening to it. I didn't finish college, I started investing instead. And just that worked out for me. And so I'm like, hey, I don't even have like an actual degree, like a, like a college degree. And like, yeah, but you still seem like, it'd be fun. And that's when I easily just was like, No, I'm sorry. I just think that who you're explaining as the listener is not really going to gain much from me, they probably wouldn't even appreciate hearing me. So I really think of it that way. Now, again, controversial because some people say just jump on any single one that you possibly can. My method is just because I'm a busy entrepreneur, I want to only be on the ones I think are absolutely 100% the best fit for me as like for my business and me, but also for the people I can add value to.

Anna David: Yeah, I mean, and listener, when you start to experience this, when you are requested for more podcasts than you want to be on, it is an actual problem. I know that I have trouble saying no. I really in life don't have trouble saying no. But I will often say, I don't like going on podcasts that much. And it's the truth. I don't like going on podcasts that aren't aligned with me. But I feel like it's really not a cool thing to do. I find it not that easy to do.

Alex: Yeah, I mean, I'm with you on that. You know, it's interesting, a lot people that are newer, they'll just start going on all of them. And I've seen this happen even on some of our platforms. And they lineup 10 or 12, they'll get up for it and be like, “I hate this, like, I don't like this.” And usually it's because they're getting on shows they're not aligned with so they feel like an hour goes by and they feel like they just wasted their time. It didn't really do anything for them. Maybe it helped somebody which we did great. But chances are, it's probably just a total misalignment. Some hosts don't understand that you need to really have a narrow niche and be very focused. Now, there's some that are like entrepreneurship is a more of a broad category, right? Like even you found a sub niche within it though, which I think is a really good thing. So for me, it's like cool, you have a focus, but if the podcast is about everything, if that's what it's called, that's just probably not going to help a lot of people out. It's just a really random thing.

Anna David: Okay, so they're doing their searches, they are figuring it out. Do you recommend going to iTunes? You know, one thing that I know Jeremy will recommend is going to iTunes looking at, you know, the top ones, because those are the ones you're going to know about. But kind of going down a level and then looking, what do listeners also listen to? What's your process? What's your recommendation? 

Alex: I think that's a really great idea. I think a lot of people what they do though, is they get to the top shows, and they just stop there and say, “cool, I want to be on all these shows.” And I have, again, some maybe controversial opinions on that. But the first of which being that if you're on a show, you're like, oh, my God shows with more than a million people listening. Listen, most niche shows will not have a million people listening. What has happened is the show has grown because people really liked the host, which in many cases, they have just blocked out the guests, they expect to learn something expect to be dazzled. But they are not going to follow any call to action. I've now been on a few different million plus downloads shows. And they've done less for me than some shows with under 100 listeners, not because I didn't deliver, I mean, I delivered really great value. But there's a million people listening, they're not there for me. The host at this point is famous. And people just love to hear the hosts. They like a little aha moment and be like, there's this guy in there the other day. They don't know my name, they don't care to know my name, they know the host’s name. But on the shows with 150-200 people listening to them and it's really narrow focused on my niche. They're like this guy, Alex Sanfilippo came on the show and shared about this, which is exactly what I've been looking for. It's why I listen to the show is to learn that very thing. And I just think that so many people to get into it like only only 100,000 downloads per episode, like that's all I'm going to do, I'm not going to waste my time. But the thing is, just because we've kind of developed this social media, I guess like persona is the same value. So like a picture with 50 likes isn't a big deal. But podcast listenership is like people sitting in seats. So if there's 50 people sitting in seats versus a picture with 50 likes, which is more valuable? Not to downplay the value of social media, but everyone listening is gets what I mean. If I told you, I have 50 People in the next room who want to hear exactly what you have to share, you're the ideal person for them to speak to, everyone who's listening is going to show up every day of the week to speak those 50 people because they want to receive from you. Anyway, little rant there, I'm going to turn it back over to you. Sorry about that.

Anna David: I love that so much. Because it's also what I always say about books is, “I want to be a New York Times bestselling author, I want to sell this,” and I always say 100 people reading your book, who are going to take action is so much better than 10,000 who are kind of going to forget it. Yeah, so true. So okay, how does somebody niche down? I mean, by being a podcast listener, and finding the niche podcast, that's how you target? 

Alex: Yeah, I mean, really, what you're what you're saying there was like, start from the top level, right? Look at what the shows are. Look for shows and comments of using like, I don't really know how Spotify works with that. But I know Apple podcast if someone has an iPhone, you can see related shows, and they're typically much smaller shows. Start looking at some of those, start finding the ones that feel like a good fit. Or there's services out there that can help with this as well. And that will actually help you find the right host to be with and stuff like that, like, like I said, be with right, like, but actually connect with them. So you can be the guest on their show. There's all kinds of ways to do this. 

Anna David: How can I not say that you have a service that does that? I mean, I know we're not, you know, promoting actively, but okay, so you have this service pod match. How does it work? 

Alex: Okay. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. Yeah. And I'm one, like I said, I show up to add value. And if it's valuable for people to hear, great. So my service is called pod match. And it literally is like, for lack of better term, it's like a dating app but for podcast interviews. So instead of connecting do for dates, it connects in for podcast interviews. So if you register as a guest saying, I am talking about starting a business, I wrote a book on it, this is what I want to talk about. It's going to match you with podcast hosts are looking for guests and they want that guest to talk about how to start a business. So it's automatically going to match you. Like I said, it's going to be the lower tier from a download level. Like I think the show quality is still top tier but the download numbers will be smaller, which I find those niche podcasts be a lot better. But that's what you're going to connect with when you use a service like this. And pod match is not the only one out there. There's others, I encourage people to go take a look around to see what the right fit for somebody is but I created this because of the act of the problem we're talking about here today. Right? I've got a book. I'm a busy entrepreneur. I don't want to spend time going through iTunes and through all these different directories and stuff and try to find podcasts. I just would rather something say, “hey, here's three really good options today. What do you think?” That's what I am looking to do as a podcast guest myself. And that's how I find the mass majority of my interviews and I do about 50 a year right now. 

Anna David: That's great. Yeah. I don't know when you sleep and it's fine. Maybe you don’t!

Alex: I'm going to call you and write a book about that because I do sleep. So I'll let you know when it's time for that, alright.

Anna David: Okay. Talk to me about your books. What's your book?

Alex: I don't have a book.

Anna David: Oh, I thought you just said that. You were so in it that you were embodying the listener. 

Alex: I was, I was, sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm speaking as a listener. So sorry, I do not have a book at this point. But I will one day and I'll call you when it's time. 

Anna David: Okay, you absolutely should. So what is very meta about that exact misunderstanding is, would you say caught showing up to add value is the most important thing that they can do? They should be thinking about the listener, not thinking about promoting their book?

Alex: Yes, 100%. And I've actually found as a podcast host, myself, the guests, that tells me that they sold the most books, or did the best with my show, or had the most downloads, were the people that literally, when I asked them where they can find their book, they're just like, “Alexander, we're gonna talk about that. Like, if someone likes it, they'll just find it themselves, let's just tell them everything about the book on this episode, and just give it all away. If they want more, they can find it.” They're the ones that always do the best. I've only had a couple of guests who has been like, “well, I'm not gonna tell you about chapter five, because you got to grab the book to learn about that.” Nobody's interested in that. People are listening to learn, they want to know that they can trust you. And if you said the whole book word for word, if someone got value from it, they're going to go buy the book, that's just how humans are, at least in the space that we're talking about. Like starting a business, right? It's self-improvement. The thing is, and you know, to be true, people who buy self-development books are usually the ones that need them the least. And that's just the nature of it. Or people that buy business improvement books, they're the ones that probably are on the right track already, but are the ones willing to invest in themselves. So for me, podcasting is all about adding as much value, packing and as much as you possibly can. And as a result, the byproduct is you're able to actually convert something into sales or leads. 

Anna David: Now, would you say, as I have said, it's rude to go on a podcast that you're not familiar with? 

Alex: I personally think so. Some people that are doing like heavy numbers, like hundreds of podcasts a year. I don't even know how they would know. That's for me why, like one year I did 100 and that was just too many. And this year, I'm doing 50, because I can actually listen to each podcast before I go on it. I prefer that because I actually want to know who's listening. And also the cadence of the hosts. Example, you and I have very similar energies. But sometimes I'll go on, on a show where the host is really monotone. And if I come on, like, what's up everybody how y'all doing today? If I come at that show with that energy, it's going to be like, oh my gosh, because the listeners, they like the host. And like, who is this crazy guy that got brought on the show? So I just think it's really important to hear that so you can understand not to pretend to be somebody you're not. But just to understand how you can respectfully enter that stage. And so yeah, for me, I think it's so important that you listen to at least a few episodes of the show, just to have an idea of what you're stepping into.

Anna David: So, they get on the show. If they're not using Pod Match or a site like it, they should just, you know, they could just Google show producer show, you know, and I think probably get very clear on this is a show that doesn't even want pitches, you know, and if the producer or host information is hard to find, they probably don't accept pitched guests. Would you say that?

Alex: That's a that's a safe bet. You know, I actually saw on your website, you got somebody on the Jordan Harbinger show, which is like one of the biggest shows in the world. But I can tell you right now, like I know him personally, nobody who emails him ever gets on the show. Like it doesn't work that way, if you did that way, good for you, and on how you did that. But in general, he strictly has his list. And he's just going after that list, and everybody else is like, “sorry, I'm just not interested.” And yeah, a lot of those bigger shows especially or shows, they just make it really hard to contact them. It's because they don't want to be contacted. They've already got their plan, their strategy in place.

Anna David: Yeah, yeah. So they should just reach out. I actually have a pitch letter, maybe I'll put it in the show notes. Like the you can't lose pitch letter. I went through a phase where I was trying to get on podcasts to promote this podcast. But as I told you, I don't like going on podcasts that much. So I stopped but I pitched a couple and someone wrote me back and said, “This is the best pitch letter I've ever gotten.” So I actually have that as a sample. The reason that I know what to say is because I've gotten so many, mostly bad pitches, and then a couple amazing ones where I basically said, I don't care who you are, this pitch is so good. I need to have you on.

Alex: I love that you brought that up, because I have some people tell me, “oh, I tried the podcasting thing I just couldn't get on so people aren't interested.” And I've always asked, “can you show me what you sent them?” And it's like five or six paragraphs. And it's all like, I did this, then I did that and then on this and then on that. I'm like, who, just honestly, who wants to read that? I'm usually pretty honest with people. I'm like, oh, that's not interesting. To me this sounds terrible. I don't care. What I care about is what are you showing up with to add value to my audience? And I imagine your pitch, that I really hope you share with everybody, it has that side of it right? It has to, I imagine.

Anna David: Absolutely. It's all about what you can provide. What you see has been amazing but hasn't been provided, how much you'll share it. I always suggest reviewing the podcast and showing your screenshot because you know, there’s nothing a host wants more than a review,

Alex: I do the same thing and that at the end of the day, you're going to get a response if you do that. If a host doesn't even respond after you left them review and send it to them, then they're probably a jerk, and you don't want to be on that show anyway. But just that one tip alone. Because, again, one of the reasons that people don't get on shows is because they're pitching really terribly. And sometimes it's not even clear what they're after. So a host that's already busy and probably getting four or five others a day is just like, this is just another one for the recycle bin.

Anna David: Yeah what I will say, you know, 99% of the time, I'm getting pitches from publicists and I just delete them. I do not show them the respect of responding, because they have not shown me the respect of being at all clear on what my podcast is. So I have no issues with it. But literally, they're just pitching random people. Because my podcast has the word “entrepreneur” in it, they're just pitching entrepreneurs who don't have books, right? They’re just like, “hey, have my client on.” You know? Don't do that. 

Alex: That’s an important point. That's why I like websites like my own, Pod Match. But the others that are more of directories. Because you know, if a host put their show on these directories, or on these matching services, whatever you want to call them, they're actually looking for guest one, but two, they're trying to avoid the whole email thing. So you could go the email route and try to search their emails, and you'll find on their websites. You can also go the social media route, but the social media side, you're also blind to knowing if they're actually looking for a guest or not. And that's why at the very least, I recommend people to again, save your time. If the idea is to share about the book and get on shows, the time you spend looking for shows, doesn't really have a huge ROI, because not doing anything for you. You can also hire somebody to do it. But you're talking about those publicists that do that. And often they are just they're using the spray and pray method, they'll send it to 300 shows and hope that three get back to them. At the same time, they're kind of almost giving you a bad name, because your name is in every one of those emails. And eventually, someone's going to read that and be like, “oh, this is that really annoying guy always has people reach out on his behalf.” 

Anna David: Oh, it's happened to me. And, frankly, I've accepted maybe five or six pitches over the last couple of years. And they've never been my best guests, ever. My best guests are the ones where I go, I want this person, I'm going to get them. And you were one of them. 

Alex: And I appreciate that. I'm honored to be on that list.

Anna David: Yeah, because it's like, I know what the holes are and what I've explained to the audience, and I know who can fill them. I don't always know I know the hole, then I see someone I go, that's the person that can explain it the best. So, do you think when it comes to a book, it's crucial that those interviews are set up in timed to the book release? 

Alex: Not necessarily. I mean, that would be in a perfect world. I think that's probably ideal. And you may even know that better than I do, like going on a pre-launch tour could be really, really great. Right? I see people mess that up, though. This is why I'm not sure how it really works, is a book comes out in two weeks. They're like, cool, I need to go on some podcasts. Well, that episode is not-you're probably not recording it for another 30 days, it's probably not coming out for other 90 days. So you're going to miss your launch. Actually had somebody just the other day tell me “hey, my book comes out the end of August, I'm going to start the beginning of August getting on podcasts.” And I told them, “listen, it's time now.” I just think that's a really important thing. So for me, I don't know, because I see so few people get the launch timing correct. But have you? I'd love to just turn the question on you. Have you seen that work before? 

Anna David: It's very hard. It is very hard. Just for me personally even with that planning and you’ll say, “please don’t release this early, please don't release it until this week.” They always say yes and they always release it early because it's not even out yet. Right. And it's just it's just the reality. I once had a pitch to guest who I had on and I've had this like this horrible surgery, the week that it was released, and I released it and her publicist wrote me and said, “her books not coming out till next week, thoughts?” And I was like, “my thought is I just came out of really bad surgery and that's just how it is.” And she's like, “we need to change that thoughts?” And I was like, oh my God. My best advice I can ever give to anyone is never do that because it just makes me dislike the guest who was perfectly fine and not promote the episode. 

Alex: You bring up a good point here. I used to have an entrepreneurship show now everything I do is focused on podcasting. Like you said, I'm like podcasting through and through. I think if I start bleeding, it would just be podcasting at this point. But what I used to do because I had some run ins with like getting the timing right, because I wanted to help the guests because usually they're really great guests, right? Then their team comes in and it has to release on the stand like well, I only release on Tuesdays like it can't go on Thursday. They say it can't go out the Tuesday before, it can go out the Tuesday after. What I started doing is just telling the guests when they come on: if the book isn't out yet, like pretend like it's out. Like don't say preorder don't say prerelease, don't say any of that. Say the book is out, it's doing great. And here's where you can get it, basically. And I just found it takes all the pressure off me. Just make sure okay, this one's release date is after this date, because that's when it will launch. And the thing is even what comes out a week early, someone at the worst case, they're just going to see oh, a preorder link. Cool, right? Like, that's it, that's still okay. And then a week after that, because you want to be evergreen. Now, it is truly a live book. 

Anna David: And I will notice when I look at my download numbers, so many people are discovering these episodes long after they're out, I think, I don't know, because I haven't made a lot of effort to figure it out. But like, how many subscribers versus listeners and all that stuff. But it's there for life. So if it's a week early, please don't bug the host about that.

Alex: It's a good point. And I'm glad you brought this up too. Because I just think that, really, if you're going on your book tour, it doesn't need to be on a specific timeline, like you know, your books been out for a year at this point. If you haven't done it yet, you might as well go for it. I don't see that being a problem personally. 

Anna David: I don't at all. And I would say one of the major issues that I see are authors are so focused on the launch that they forget it's got a life and that the launch, sure it's important. In an ideal world, you've got all your ducks in a row. But it doesn't really matter. And I think the misconception comes from traditional publishing, which is so focused on the launch week, because once they have the launch week, they know which books they're going to put more resources behind. But if you're not doing traditional publishing, you can just keep promoting it for as long as you want.

Alex: Yeah. It's funny, you mentioned that because a guy that I know, his name's Brant, he released a book and a year later got on some podcast. He did want like the traditional publishing route. And one of them that he got on was like a multilevel marketing or direct sales guru. It was her podcast and all of her tribe listen. Anyway, I read the podcast and I guess she bought the book for everybody. It was like 1000 books, and they didn't have 1000 of them in stock. So like he was on my podcast next. He's like, “dude, I just sold out books like a year after it came out like 1000 books in one like one quick split second, everyone bought it.” And it's just like cool that book has-it's not like this was a day one thing this is a year later we're talking. So yeah, they're still life in that book. I hope that when anybody listening to this is writing a book, that you're not writing it just for today, you're writing it for the future and doing your best to keep it at least evergreen for as long as you possibly can, which means the lifecycle of your book can continue in years to come. 

Anna David: And speaking of that, I've barely talked about this on the show. But right now I'm in the process of writing a book based on these podcasts interviews, I asked the guests who are really providing value. So I'm going to ask you while you're being recorded, may I use this interview in my book?

Alex: Please do! That would be amazing. That would be so cool.

Anna David: I’m subtly telling you guys the most amazing book, I'm going to release it in 2023. But it's so exciting because I've had so many amazing guests. And I don't know if you've experienced this but it starts with podcasting and moves so fast. They're sharing gems, and I'm like, okay, next week's guest and then the next week's guest. And having these transcripts and taking them apart and putting them together in a book, I'm actually appreciating the ridiculous wisdom that I've been able to hear by doing this. It's pretty cool.

Alex: It's so cool, because we're just having a conversation. And I've always found this to be true. But conversations I've just had throughout my life, whether there's a microphone in front of you or not, is where you get some of the most insightful information that you can learn and apply in your life. Podcasting is simply putting a mic between two people having a great conversation. And I just think it's it sets up a position for powerful things to happen. I think it's why I believe the world is just primarily being served through podcasts these days. From an educational standpoint, people are learning growing and changing from what they're hearing through podcasts, because they're just a fly on the wall in what could be a really beautiful conversation. So I mean, I can't wait to pick up that book myself. Because I'm sure like you're saying, it's the fact that you do such a good job vetting your guests, it's going to be full of just all kinds of wisdom that I would love to learn personally.

Anna David: So good! So Alex, we have to wrap up, tell me, how can people find you? Oh, we did say, well, I want to get into this a little bit. So I said to you, I don't want to go on Pod Match. Because I don't want to be pitch guests, because I know who I want. And you're like, oh, it'd be interesting to talk about, what do you have to say about that?

Alex: Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you can always say no, and if it brings you to somebody that you didn't realize existed, or that might just be that perfect guests that you're like, oh, there's this like, you're saying there's this like hole in my mind of like what we're looking for? Maybe it could fill it right. It could just be another avenue. But there's no harm in saying no. Granted, if you do have like a very strict, this is exactly where I'm going and there's no room then don't do it. And I believe I said that in our initial email that we had back and forth like, “hey, maybe it's just not the right fit.” But to me, I think it's always worth potentially discovering somebody who might not know how else to find you. Maybe it's just the connection method that that would work best. And that's kind of my thought on it. 

Anna David: Oh, but that reminds me of another thing. What about taking money for guests. You know, how do you feel about that? Does it take the quality of the podcast down?

Alex: I have found that it does. Some people maybe do it a little bit better. It's something that I've never done and really won’t. Even if my podcast was massive, I'm not going to do that. Because at the end of the day, I always say the same thing: seek to be a person of value, not a person of profit. If I just had you my podcast, because I'm like, well, can't get one to pay me but Anna said that she'd give me $500 so I guess I'll have her on the podcast. Without actually exploring the fact of is this really the right guest, I just took it because the money. Now I'm seeking to be a person of profit not a person of value. And as soon as you do that, I just find the quality of everything you do really starts to diminish. I believe that profit should be a byproduct of the quality that you add. I think a podcast is just again, one of most beautiful ways the world is being served and if you turn that into a profit machine, the podcast itself, I do believe in monetizing it, but not from the perspective of who you're bringing on the show. 

Anna David: Yeah, so people listening, if you're toying with that idea, it may not be the highest quality podcast. You know, who knows? I hear rumors that the huge podcasters take money, but who knows, who knows?

Alex: I want to stay out of that world. I don't know it very well. I know podcasting from an indie podcaster standpoint. But for the big shows, I learned a lot about the publishing space in the last couple of years that made me really sad to hear how many dollars move back and forth to make things appear on lists and stuff I didn't know about. And I'd hate to hear it if podcasting was the same way. So I'm going to sit here and be naive and just pretend like no, that's not the case but it probably is.

Anna David: Yeah, I think so. So, how can people find you, join Pod Match, all the things?

Alex: Yeah. So everything that I'm doing is at podpros.com, which is just the parent company of Pod Match. So you can find Pod Match there, you can find anything else I’m doing and all of my social links. But I really love what you're doing here with Entrepreneur Publishing Academy. I think this is a beautiful show. You've done such a good job bringing the right people on and I just recommend everyone keep on hanging out with Anna, you're really going to go places together here. And thank you again for having me. I really appreciate it.

Anna David: Thank you so much, Alex. And thanks y'all for listening.

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